Divine Light & Doubt

In this episode of Lattes & Art, host James William Moore explores the dramatic world of Caravaggio through the lens of Pope Francis’s admiration. Why does a pope known for humility and mercy gravitate toward an artist with such a turbulent past? We break down two of Caravaggio’s most powerful works—The Calling of Saint Matthew and The Incredulity of Saint Thomas—looking closely at their use of light, realism, and raw emotion. These aren’t just paintings; they are spiritual confrontations in oil and shadow. Join us as we unpack the tension between faith and doubt, sinner and saint, and why Caravaggio’s divine drama still hits home today.

Image Links:

The Calling of Saint Matthew https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Calling_of_Saint_Matthew_by_Carvaggio.jpg

The Incredulity of Saint Thomas https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Incredulity_of_Saint_Thomas_by_Caravaggio.jpg 

Mean Streets, Martin Scorsese https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070379/mediaviewer/rm2117716992/?ref_=ttmi_mi_11

Installation shots of Caravaggio works https://anamericaninrome.com/2019/02/caravaggio-church-san-luigi-dei-francesi-rome/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

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Transcript

00;00;06;26 - 00;00;37;27
James
Welcome to Lattes & Art, where we sip on espressos and celebrate the world of creativity. I'm your host, James William Moore, and this episode is presented by J-Squared Atelier. Today we're talking about a baroque rebel, a painter of divine drama and raw humanity, a man whose work, despite being centuries old, continues to stir souls across generations. And what better entry point than this?

00;00;38;00 - 00;01;09;25
James
Pope Francis once said that he favors Caravaggio, not Michelangelo, not Raphael, but Caravaggio. The hotheaded, shadow drenched, emotionally charged master of tenebrism. Why would a pope align himself with such a turbulent figure? That's what we're diving into on this episode. In 2013, just months after becoming pope, Francis was asked which artist moved up. He didn't hesitate.

00;01;09;26 - 00;01;40;16
James
He said Caravaggio specifically naming the calling of Saint Matthew. And if you've seen that painting, you can understand why. The moment Jesus enters the tavern and points at Matthew, who points back at himself, eyes wide in disbelief. It's not distant or polished. It's human. It's earthy. A spiritual revelation that feels like it could happen at your kitchen table.

00;01;40;19 - 00;02;16;09
James
To Pope Francis, a Jesuit is deeply concerned with humility and inclusion. Caravaggio's work hits a nerve. This isn't Gilded Glory. It's dirty feet. It's bruised skin and grace amidst the mess. Let's take a closer look at the painting. There's a group of men counting coins at a table. Suddenly, a beam of light cuts through the shadows. A barefoot Jesus, nearly in silhouette, raises his hand and points one of the men in disbelief.

00;02;16;10 - 00;02;47;22
James
Point seven myself. Me. It's that moment of surprise of transformation that Caravaggio painted so masterfully. And it's that painting. The Calling of Saint Matthew, painted in 1600, hangs in the Torelli chapel of San Luigi de Francesco in Rome. That Pope Francis has said he keeps returning to. The painting is massive, about ten by 11ft, and it's dark, like really dark.

00;02;47;24 - 00;03;13;17
James
The scene a group of five tax collectors hunched over a table counting money. They're dressed in contemporary 1600s clothing, not biblical robes. They're in a tavern, not a temple. They looked like people you'd find in a side street bar near the Spanish Steps. And then stage right. Christ steps in, but he doesn't look central. He almost blends into the shadows.

00;03;13;25 - 00;03;41;12
James
Behind him is Saint Peter. Just a hint of gold in his beard, gently pushing forward. And then there's that gesture, Jesus pointing calmly towards one of the men at the table, and the man. He points back at himself. Me? That's Matthew. Or at least it becomes him. Caravaggio doesn't show the miracle itself. He shows a second before it.

00;03;41;14 - 00;03;51;02
James
That fragile human, human moment. It's a painting about hesitation, about invitation to change your life.

00;03;51;05 - 00;04;19;23
James
Caravaggio uses light like a playwright uses a monologue. It tells the story. A strong diagonal beam slices across the composition from upper right to lower left. This isn't sunlight. It's divine light. It falls across Matthew and the others like a spotlight from heaven, as if God is saying, look here. Pay attention. But here's the thing the light touch is more than just Matthew.

00;04;19;26 - 00;04;50;16
James
It touches the whole table. Everyone gets a little grace whether or not they accept it. This isn't just technical. It's theological. It says that salvation is offered, not force. The calling comes quietly, like the light drifting into the dark room. No angels, no gold halos. Just shadow, illumination and choice. Pope Francis once said this image represents his own life.

00;04;50;19 - 00;05;15;06
James
In fact, he said that every time he visits wrong, he tries to see it. The moment of Matthew pointing to himself me was, for Francis, a mirror of his own calling. You can see why it resonates. Francis is a pope of humility. He rides in a Fiat. He washes the feet of prisoners. He speaks of mercy. Always mercy.

00;05;15;08 - 00;05;47;02
James
And here is Caravaggio painting mercy not as something abstract, but as something disrupt it. An act of love. Matthew is not expecting to be chosen. He's doing his job. He's counting coins caught in the system of power and money. And Jesus sees him. It's that gaze, that invitation, that soft insistence that still changes people today. Caravaggio is revolutionary because he made the sacred immediate.

00;05;47;09 - 00;06;17;15
James
He didn't idealize his figures. He cast real people with dirt under their nails, increases in their brows. There's tension in their bodies. Some look suspicious. One barely lifts his head. This wasn't how saints were supposed to look in art, but it was how people really looked in Caravaggio. Despite, or maybe because of his own turbulent life, knew that God doesn't wait for perfection.

00;06;17;18 - 00;06;50;20
James
That's why this painting still knocks the air out of your lungs. It's immediate. It's cinematic, and it suggests that holiness can interrupt us in any moment. In a back room, at a table in the middle of life's routine. We live in a world full of noise, full of curated perfection, filters and surface level connections. But the calling of Saint Matthew reminds us that the divine often arrives unannounced, quiet but unmistakable.

00;06;50;22 - 00;07;24;04
James
And more importantly, it asks, what would you do if someone pointed a finger at you out of nowhere and said, follow me. Would you hesitate? Would you doubt? Or would you get up to see? Pope Francis sees himself in Matthew. Maybe we all do. That startled me. Isn't just a reaction. It's a threshold. A doorway between we are and who we might become.

00;07;24;06 - 00;07;55;26
James
Caravaggio burst onto the Roman art scene in the late 1500s with something totally new truth. His subjects were saints, yes, but they looked like real people. Prostitutes modeled for virgins. Street brawlers became martyrs. There was no idealization, no softening of the rough edges. His signature style tenebrism used intense contrasts between light and dark to carve drama right out of the canvas.

00;07;55;29 - 00;08;29;22
James
It wasn't just technique. It was a philosophy. The divine emerges not in spite of darkness, but through it. In a way, he invented spiritual realism. His Christ was not remote. He entered rooms full of sinners, shadows and self-doubt. Sound familiar? Let's not romanticize them too much. Michelangelo merisi to Caravaggio was complicated. He had a violent temper, killed a man in a straight line, and fled Rome as a fugitive.

00;08;29;25 - 00;09;04;07
James
He lived like a sinner, but painted like someone desperate for redemption. And this duality is likely part of what attracts Pope Francis. In Caravaggio, he sees not just artistic genius, but a theology of mercy, a flawed humanity still worthy of grace. Think of The Incredulity of Saint Thomas, a painting where Jesus guides Thomas's finger into his wound. There's no scolding, just invitation in empathy.

00;09;04;09 - 00;09;38;28
James
It's radical. It's tender and mirrors Francis's message that doubt and imperfection don't push us away from God. They pull us closer. The Incredulity of Saint Thomas, painted around 1601 to 1602, captures a moment straight from the Gospel of John. It's that famous passage where Thomas says, unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.

00;09;39;00 - 00;10;15;06
James
And then Jesus appears and says, do it. Caravaggio doesn't paint the before or after he paints the exact moment Thomas touches the wound. It's almost surgical. Thomas's brow furrowed, his eyes, squinting in disbelief. Not because he doubts, but because he can't believe what he's feeling. His finger pushes into Christ's side, guided by Jesus's own hand. Two other disciples lean in, peering like a curious scientist.

00;10;15;08 - 00;10;49;28
James
No halos, no light from heaven. Just three regular men crowding in around a resurrected body. It's clinical. It's earthy. It's unbelievably human. This is classic Caravaggio. Deep shadow, tight framing, and that almost uncomfortable realism. The background is entirely dark, like a void. There is no setting, no temple, no clouds, no gold leaf. Just four men and a black box of mystery.

00;10;50;00 - 00;11;14;16
James
The light falls hard and direct from the left, carving the scene out of darkness. It catches the folds in the linen. The oily skin of aging hands. The gloss of the wound. And then there's Jesus. Calm, patient. His expression is neutral, even a bit resigned, like he knew this was coming. He's not offended by Thomas's doubt. Instead, he invites it.

00;11;14;21 - 00;11;46;07
James
He guides it. Jesus physically holds Thomas's hand and presses it into his side. That detail alone flips the entire story on its head. It's not Thomas reaching out in desperation. It's Jesus pulling him in. This is where the painting gets really powerful, especially in a spiritual context. Like Pope Francis's, Caravaggio isn't painting a reprimand. There's no fire or brimstone.

00;11;46;10 - 00;12;17;17
James
No. Ye of little faith. Instead there's compassion. It's a God who says, if this is what you need to believe, touch me. It's tactile, grounded. Real. Faith in this painting isn't ethereal. It's sensory. And this speaks volumes about Francis's approach to belief. The idea that doubt isn't a threat. It's a path that faith sometimes needs proof. And that's okay.

00;12;17;19 - 00;12;49;25
James
That being human, curious, skeptical, even stubborn, is not an obstacle to grace. In a way, the and credibility of Saint Thomas might be Cavazos most relatable work. Because aren't we all Thomas? Sometimes we live in an age of misinformation, spiritual fatigue, and endless scrolling. We ask what's real? What's worth of belief? Where is the proof? And Caravaggio doesn't answer with a sermon.

00;12;49;28 - 00;13;23;14
James
He answers with a wound, a hand, a look. He invites us to lean in, to ask the hard questions and to still be held. Caravaggio's influence didn't end with the Baroque. You see echoes of him in film noir tours, skewer photography, even Scorsese's use of light morality. Modern painters, two from Francis Bacon to contemporary realist painters, owe a debt to Cavazos unapologetic human gaze.

00;13;23;17 - 00;13;55;13
James
And in church corridors, you still see tourists gasping when they stumble upon his work because it feels real, not just beautiful. It's true. So when Pope Francis favored Caravaggio, he wasn't just picking a style, he was aligning with a vision. That holiness isn't found in perfection, but in presence. That art can meet people where they are flawed, fractured and reaching for light.

00;13;55;15 - 00;14;24;04
James
Caravaggio reminds us that art doesn't have to be polite to be sacred. Sometimes the divine shows up in the dark corners in the questions, not just the answers. Thanks for joining me today. If you've never seen the calling of Saint Matthew or the Incredulity of Saint Thomas, we've got you covered. You'll find links to high quality images and a few extra resources right there in the show notes.

00;14;24;06 - 00;14;53;26
James
So go take a look. Zoom in on the light, the hands, the expressions and see for yourself why Caravaggio still stops us in our tracks. Let that silver of light move you. Until next time, keep sipping on those espressos. Keep seeing art and all of the corners of your world. And keep creating. This is James William Moore, and this has been lattes and Art brought to you by J-Squared Atelier.