Aneka Brown: Appropriation vs. Appreciation

In this eye-opening episode of Lattes & Art, host James William Moore sits down with designer and creative powerhouse Aneka Brown to unpack the often-blurred line between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. Drawing from her personal experiences and professional journey, Aneka shares insight into honoring cultural heritage through design, the responsibilities that come with representing cultures not your own, and the importance of listening and learning when creating art inspired by diverse traditions.

Together, they explore how artists and audiences alike can navigate this complex conversation with empathy, respect, and authenticity. Don’t miss Aneka’s powerful perspective on how we can move beyond stereotypes to celebrate cultural richness without exploitation.

Aneka Brown (Aneka Brown Designs):

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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61558439646123

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Transcript

00;00;01;00 - 00;00;31;19
James
Welcome to Lattes & Art, sponsored by J-Squared Atelier. Today's episode comes from a conversation that's been years in the making. A conversation that started when I, as a white male artist, worried I had crossed a line by using an iconic image of a 1970s Diana Ross photograph. I was working on an artwork for an event that Aneka Brown was hosting, but it was Aneka, the designer, artist and visionary behind Aneka Brown Designs who helped me see things differently.

00;00;31;23 - 00;01;09;04
James
She showed me that while the image wasn't from my culture or lived experience, I was approaching it with appreciation, not appropriation. That moment reshaped how I think about representation, respect, and creative intent when it comes to things cultural that aren't from my own background. In this episode, and again, I revisit that conversation and take it even deeper. We talk about what cultural appropriation really looks like when the line into appropriation gets crossed, and how artists of all backgrounds can celebrate cultures without exploiting them.

00;01;09;08 - 00;01;19;02
James
Get ready for a thoughtful, honest, and sometimes uncomfortable conversation. Aneka, thank you so much for joining me today on the episode, I appreciate it.

00;01;19;03 - 00;01;20;28
Aneka
Thank you for having me.

00;01;21;01 - 00;01;33;16
James
Just so everybody gets kind of a proper introduc of who you are and what it is that you do. Can you tell us a little bit about you as an artist and designer and about Aneka Brown Designs?

00;01;33;22 - 00;02;08;11
Aneka
Well, I am a clothing and accessory designer. I have owned an art gallery before that featured only cultural or LGBTQIa art. And I like to say that with my clothes, I like to fuze my heritage, which is African American, with my culture, which is African because, you know, we descend from Africa. So I like to bring those aspects together, to bring my love of being African American and African to the forefront.

00;02;08;17 - 00;02;21;28
James
What were some of the pivotal moments that you've had? Being a black woman. Being someone who is built on business and you're bringing your culture to the table through these amazing designs that you're creating.

00;02;21;29 - 00;02;44;12
Aneka
Well, the first pivotal moment I had is when I was lucky enough to meet, the iconic Trina Parks I have as a child, I wouldn't say worshiped or idolized, but I have appreciated her because she was the first African-American bond girl. And diamonds are forever. So she moved out here. She was part of the Palm Springs Follies at the time.

00;02;44;12 - 00;03;05;28
Aneka
I hadn't started designing yet. I had the gallery, so we were friends. And then when I started designing, I started posting my pieces on Facebook and she was like, oh, I love that, I love that, I love that. So landing her as a client and then subsequently bringing her back, I would host black History events. And she. How would you say she wasn't a guest?

00;03;05;29 - 00;03;31;28
Aneka
She was the hostess. I would put her out front and getting her as a client is seeing her in my pieces and seeing her and red carpets in my pieces just blew me away. And then the next client I got was the iconic Sherry Belafonte, who is, of course, Harry Belafonte's daughter. She wore me to SAG Awards. I was subsequently and people magazine for that outfit, so that was my first major write up.

00;03;31;28 - 00;03;50;29
Aneka
I've gotten more Getty Images with her than I have with anybody. Those were two very, very pivotal moments in my career that I just said I could do this and I could make this happen, and I was enjoying what I was doing. I had already locked down a lot of the local celebrities here, like, you know, Keyshia de Robert Moon.

00;03;50;29 - 00;04;10;20
Aneka
One of my things at the time, he was the mayor of Palm Springs, you and your lovely husband and, just all the local celebrities. Belle of the ball had a few of my pieces. So I was always kind of like, this local fixture, and I don't want to say, like, legend or whatever.

00;04;10;20 - 00;04;12;09
James
Or you were known.

00;04;12;10 - 00;04;14;18
Aneka
I was. Exactly. That's your namesake.

00;04;14;20 - 00;04;21;22
James
So it's that standing out in a social setting. We don't miss you when we show up to a party.

00;04;21;26 - 00;04;37;04
Aneka
I work in vibrant colors, but then I also mix the African part into it and the African-American part into it to make these fabrics and make these prints that are just phenomenal, and they set themselves apart from what other people are doing.

00;04;37;04 - 00;04;42;14
James
I apologize if I sound ignorant with this question, but are those like tribal prints that you're working with?

00;04;42;15 - 00;04;58;26
Aneka
Yes. And what I do to so that it does not cross the line. I do not design and sacred prints. I design and prints that everybody can wear so that they don't have to worry about crossing into that cultural appropriation line.

00;04;59;01 - 00;05;13;05
James
Well, I love how you say everyone can wear because as you mentioned earlier, you had a gallery here in Palm Springs that you would host some amazing shows you how Charles Bibbs here several times.

00;05;13;05 - 00;05;36;02
Aneka
And Charles Bibbs is the and has been for the last 30 years, the leading African American artist, along with Cynthia Saint James in the United States. What made me start that gallery is because, I have an interior design background. And so whatever I was going to put art into a house, I would go to, like Kodak Gallery, Michael H.

00;05;36;02 - 00;05;57;13
Aneka
Lord at the time, Gallery gone. And I struck up a friendship with the manager at the Michael H. Lord Gallery. And so I said to him, why don't you carry Charles Bibbs? And so what he said to me, and I took it to heart, was that of Charles Bibbs or an African artists that descended from Africa. He would carry him.

00;05;57;14 - 00;06;24;17
Aneka
But because he was not from Africa, because he was from America, and he was an artist, it's looked upon differently. Whereas if you're from Africa or if you're from Haiti, or if you're from any of these countries where black people live and you're coming from there, it's looked at as exotic art. But somehow, if it's African, if it's an African American artist, it's not acceptable or it's not as well received.

00;06;24;20 - 00;06;34;18
James
So we really haven't lost that sort of Western Europe and white man thinking of how to look at black art.

00;06;34;20 - 00;06;57;25
Aneka
Exactly. And I don't remember who said this, but it's one of my favorite quotes when you go to art, you look at it with a veil of ignorance as to the subject matter, and if you love it, hang it up in your heart so you would see like say for instance, if you go to a an African-American person's house and if you see a white artist, it's not anything a big deal.

00;06;58;01 - 00;07;18;11
Aneka
But then if you go to a white person's house and you see a Charles pins up for some reason, it was just shocking. When I got out of the interior design business, I made it my mission. I opened up the gallery and as you said, I featured cultural artists. So it was not only African American, but it was Mexican American.

00;07;18;14 - 00;07;30;06
Aneka
It was LGBTQ art. And my mission was to spread a love of art regardless what the subject is. So if you like that, Charles Bibbs, you buy it and you put it in your house.

00;07;30;06 - 00;07;31;07
James
Which we did.

00;07;31;12 - 00;07;36;16
Aneka
Oh, you guys bought two pieces. You guys bought two pieces. You guys absolutely did.

00;07;36;19 - 00;07;52;03
James
It's almost like a mission statement for you because you know, it's attainable by everyone. It's welcomed by everyone, but you're not excluding anyone to the point that you yelled at me because I didn't share my portfolio with you.

00;07;52;04 - 00;07;52;21
Aneka
Oh, yeah.

00;07;52;27 - 00;08;08;10
James
Because I made this assumption that you only show artists that are cultural, and me, being a white artist didn't see myself as culturally more than just the blond haired guy that takes photographs.

00;08;08;12 - 00;08;25;14
Aneka
But when I looked at your portfolio and what made me approach you is because as a white man, you took cultural pictures from your lens. So it had a different viewpoint and it had a different story to tell.

00;08;25;16 - 00;08;43;18
James
Well, and I would like to feel that when I'm doing things like that, because when I'm in San Jose, I live in Japantown. So I'm surrounded by the culture of Japanese individuals. I'm surrounded by the history of the internment camps and the people that were whisked away to those. And I have an appreciation of all of that in a respect.

00;08;43;18 - 00;09;07;22
James
I hope I have a respect, and I'm always careful when I'm photographing street art or graffiti art or anything else. That's not my culture, but it brings me to that moment that you and I had that conversation. You had an event one summer. You asked me to do a couple of things. I started playing and you got all excited about a test I was doing.

00;09;07;22 - 00;09;08;05
Aneka
Yes.

00;09;08;07 - 00;09;12;17
James
And it was that Diana Ross with the afro?

00;09;12;17 - 00;09;13;02
Aneka
Yes.

00;09;13;02 - 00;09;14;22
James
And the big earrings?

00;09;14;22 - 00;09;15;19
Aneka
Yes.

00;09;15;19 - 00;09;17;26
James
And I was nervous.

00;09;17;28 - 00;09;45;17
Aneka
You were very nervous. And I'm glad that you set the nervousness aside to do that, because that was such an iconic thing. And it was a way of you appreciating Diana Ross and bringing something fresh to it, because you came in with new ideas, whereas you had her afro diamond glittery and you did the hoops glittery, something that I had not seen before, and I really didn't look at it as, oh, I'm asking this white man to do Diana Ross.

00;09;45;17 - 00;09;56;10
Aneka
I looked at it as I'm asking my friend who is an artist who appreciates my culture, to look at this through your eyes and give it something fresh, and you did that well.

00;09;56;10 - 00;10;13;17
James
And I appreciate the education I've received from you because I cherish our friendship and I love everything I have learned of your culture, your history, your past that I'm now able to share through my art, through my classroom.

00;10;13;19 - 00;10;21;15
Aneka
And that's where you are a cultural appreciator and not a appropriator.

00;10;21;15 - 00;10;42;25
James
Which is funny because I'm the first person that stands and I go, yes, I appropriate and I poke fun at things. And, you know, I take our president and I make him look like a fool because that's my choice as an artist. But what I'm doing something that's in the culture realm, I avoid that.

00;10;42;27 - 00;11;14;02
Aneka
See, my whole thing is that people need to learn the difference. And the difference is, say, for instance, the Kardashian family, their claim to fame was appropriating black women's esthetic, claiming it as their own. That's what appropriation is. Appropriation is when you take something from another person's culture with the sole purpose for gaining clout and gaining money and not giving back to that culture.

00;11;14;02 - 00;11;33;01
James
It's interesting you say that because I was going to bring that up. There are these individuals that are taking the culture, the patterns, the tribal prints, the hairstyles, all of these different things and not recognizing where it came from.

00;11;33;01 - 00;11;37;23
Aneka
Exactly. They want all of our rhythm and all of our rhyme without the pain.

00;11;37;24 - 00;11;44;15
James
It's that thing that still keeping people in boxes.

00;11;44;18 - 00;12;05;22
Aneka
All of a sudden when I do it it's labeled ghetto. But when the Kardashians do it, it's edgy, it's a trend. And to me I even want to repurpose the word ghetto because people have the connotation like this is a negative word. What it's really not well.

00;12;05;22 - 00;12;17;02
James
And it gets to who's using that word because my husband's Jewish and there were Jewish ghettos, and they would be segregated to those areas, just like blacks be.

00;12;17;02 - 00;12;21;12
Aneka
Segregated to their right, weren't allowed to buy property in.

00;12;21;12 - 00;12;36;22
James
So if I'm talking in a Jewish culture, ghetto has a different it's that that negative lockdown. But you, your culture, the black community embracing that idea of ghetto.

00;12;36;22 - 00;13;07;09
Aneka
Some of the most beautiful things come out of some of the most tragic circumstances. I'm not speaking from experience because I was raised in a middle class. Some say upper middle class, but that never stopped me from going places, learning things and experiencing things. And some of the most beautiful things come out of some of the most raw talent, some of the most talented individuals, some of the most intelligent individuals.

00;13;07;09 - 00;13;20;10
Aneka
It's like Tupac had that book, The Concrete, the Rose That Grew from concrete. Concrete is hard stone. You wouldn't think that a rose would grow out of that, but it did, and it does. And so that's why the word ghetto does not offend me.

00;13;20;10 - 00;13;45;07
James
That's the thing I appreciate is that you're ready to confront it. And I like that because I'm kind of confrontational, too. Yeah, but you do it in such a passionate way, and I think a loving and caring way, because I have never felt when we've had these uncomfortable conversations I want to learn. And it's almost like I get this, hug of acceptance.

00;13;45;10 - 00;13;55;14
James
And through that, I learn even more because those negative connotation words suddenly can have a better meaning for me.

00;13;55;16 - 00;14;17;22
Aneka
I love the fact that you are so willing to learn, and I love the fact that you ask questions. Ask questions, learn. That's what the world needs more of. And the one thing with you, though, is that you actually listen to what I'm saying. You don't hear it, you listen to it, and then you digest what I've said, and then you take that back and you share that with other people.

00;14;17;29 - 00;14;26;19
Aneka
And another thing I love about you is that me as a marginalized person, being an African-American and a woman, you don't tell me how I should express my pain.

00;14;26;24 - 00;14;27;14
James
Oh, how you.

00;14;27;14 - 00;14;40;03
Aneka
Don't tell me how what you did, oh, I should be doing this, or I should be doing that, or I should be doing this. You just sit back and observe and you listen. And if you have questions, you ask that and you internalize what I'm telling you.

00;14;40;09 - 00;14;59;27
James
Well, I think to we, you and I and some of our circle that we share have had this conversation about allies, and me being in the LGBTQ community. We love our allies. We love those people that don't have one of those letters but are standing right there with me.

00;14;59;28 - 00;15;00;29
Aneka
Exactly.

00;15;00;29 - 00;15;12;21
James
And I feel you are one of those individuals. And when there's something that you or your community is up against, I would hope to be able to be that idea of the ally standing there with you.

00;15;12;22 - 00;15;32;09
Aneka
And you are. And to me, our being an ally is very important. When I am an ally to the LGBTQ community, I don't come in and say, this is what I'm going to do because I don't know that struggle. I come in and say, how can I be of service? What do you need me to do?

00;15;32;12 - 00;15;50;07
James
Well, and that's the thing I have so enjoyed about you your artwork, your practice of what it is that you do. Designing you're in the community. Doesn't matter which one. Yeah, because all of us come together to make that community.

00;15;50;07 - 00;16;01;24
Aneka
We really do. And it's a beautiful thing in our little friend circle. Yeah. Now, the one thing I ask, I will say is I am guilty of is I am quick to check a homophobic mofo without asking.

00;16;01;26 - 00;16;04;17
James
I get brutal.

00;16;04;19 - 00;16;06;24
Aneka
And I won't apologize for that.

00;16;07;00 - 00;16;28;12
James
Well, and but again, it gets back to that real ally. Let's get back to your designs for a little. Okay. You talked about the Kardashian fans and others like them that have taken things, but you're using your own history, your own background. Has there been times that that's been misinterpreted of what you're doing?

00;16;28;14 - 00;16;38;27
Aneka
Yes. Or I wouldn't say misinterpreted. Sometimes you'll get people like, I'm really into the wearable art thing now. So I have these great bags.

00;16;39;00 - 00;16;41;04
James
And they're fabulous bags, people.

00;16;41;11 - 00;17;01;03
Aneka
I'll put Dorothy Dandridge on a bed, and I've had white clients kind of steer away from buying that Dorothy Dandridge back and my think say, well, why? Well, because she's African-American. I said, okay, so if I had on a shirt with Bob Dylan on, are you going to look at me sideways because I've got on a shirt with Bob Dylan?

00;17;01;10 - 00;17;19;25
Aneka
No, because he is iconic. The same thing goes for a person of nod that is non-African American carry in a bag with a Barack Obama or Michelle Obama, or a Dorothy Dandridge or Trina Parks. Any of these iconic black figures, they're for all of us to appreciate.

00;17;19;25 - 00;17;41;23
James
It's funny you brought up the bags and that someone was not put off. That's the wrong word. But they were gun shy. Gun shy. I like that, but I've got two different Donna Summers that you did. Yes. That bag makes an entrance like it enters the room and gets sat down on the table and people stop.

00;17;41;25 - 00;17;42;10
Aneka


00;17;42;16 - 00;17;45;07
James
Because it is eye catching.

00;17;45;14 - 00;17;45;29
Aneka
Exactly.

00;17;46;04 - 00;17;55;05
James
And it's all of these things. And I have never once thought that it could possibly be. Why is he carrying that bag?

00;17;55;06 - 00;18;14;06
Aneka
It's because again you're looking at the, at it with a through a veil of ignorance. Not ignorance as far as it being art, but ignorant to the fact that it's black art because it's not black art. They try to pigeonhole African American artists into this category by calling it black art. It's not black artists art.

00;18;14;06 - 00;18;22;02
James
And I think that still goes back to my whole beef with the art institution as a whole, that they have to be able to hang a label on it.

00;18;22;02 - 00;18;22;25
Aneka
Exactly.

00;18;22;25 - 00;18;26;27
James
Just like they want to hang a label on my artwork that it's LGBTQ.

00;18;26;28 - 00;18;27;26
Aneka
But it's not.

00;18;27;26 - 00;18;39;15
James
It's campy. It's these things. Yes, I use it because that actually is my culture. Yeah, but I'm doing so much more than just that, and it's reaching more people when they're open to it.

00;18;39;15 - 00;19;05;12
Aneka
Exactly. And that's what you have to be open to it. Another thing that the difference is a lot of people, like wearing locks or cornrows, are styles that are from my culture. The thing that I always say is like when people are like, oh, why does it offend you when you see a non-black person with locs? Well, because that is a hairstyle that I used to have locs.

00;19;05;12 - 00;19;43;10
Aneka
You as a business owner, if I came into your job and wanted a job with my locks up until the Crown Act was initiated, you could solely not hire me because of my hairstyle and what a lot of people don't realize or don't care to think about is that for centuries, we were forced to conform to these European standards of beauty to be accepted because the way our hair naturally grew out of our hair, nappy coiled afros, whatever you be, we had to find some way to straighten it, lighten it, whatever to just be able to survive.

00;19;43;12 - 00;20;12;18
Aneka
And so when somebody such as myself, where I'm very into natural hairstyles and then I see somebody that is non African American or non black, what baby with locs, do they understand the journey that the fight, the struggle that people that looked like me had to go through in order just to wake up? Where are hair? The way it grows out of our head and try to get jobs.

00;20;12;25 - 00;20;20;07
Aneka
So for you to take that hairstyle and make it about a fashion, that's appropriation, that's disrespect.

00;20;20;07 - 00;20;41;16
James
And that's where I feel your work, what you do, what you do with the gallery, what you're doing with your designs and the wearable art is helping educate us as a bigger population that these pieces are important. This is amazing history, but you got to learn it.

00;20;41;16 - 00;20;51;20
Aneka
You do. You have to learn it. You have to internalize it. You have to appreciate it. And then take what you've learned and spread that to other people that look like you, that don't know.

00;20;51;20 - 00;20;59;01
James
Yeah. It just I'm fascinated how far we have come as a society, but not.

00;20;59;04 - 00;21;10;14
Aneka
Yeah, every time we take two steps forward, we take four steps back. And what this orange clown that's in the office now, we have taken 250 steps back.

00;21;10;14 - 00;21;15;13
James
Well, it's like trying to erase history. That's uncomfortable.

00;21;15;14 - 00;21;38;12
Aneka
It really is. And to me, it's like, I hate when I hear people say, oh, well, why do we have to learn about slavery? Because we weren't slaves. You weren't a slave. I didn't own any slaves. And I will never forget I had this college debate course and there was a girl that and I don't want to call her errors, but she really was, because she came from generations of money.

00;21;38;12 - 00;21;55;11
Aneka
And so she did not understand the concept. And so I broke it down to her and I said, okay, wait a minute. I said, where do you get your money from? Oh, well, I had a trust fund that came from my grandparents. I said, where your grandparents? First generation years? Oh, no, it came from their grandparents and their grandparents and passed out.

00;21;55;11 - 00;22;14;00
Aneka
I said, okay, so at some point somebody in your family owns somebody that looked like me, got free labor, all the people that looked like me. And now, because of that, you are at 21, a multimillionaire. I don't have that luxury, I said. So no, while I was not a slave, I said, but I am a descendant from a slave.

00;22;14;06 - 00;22;51;27
Aneka
So after slaves were freed, we started communities on our own. We started Black Wall Street. We started these thriving neighborhoods where we did not depend on anybody else but ourselves. And what happened? Non-Black people came and burned those things to the ground. Banks that were holding on to black money kept that black money. Neighborhoods began redlined. So all of a sudden, you I live in this neighborhood of somebody that lives, that lives in this neighborhood where the house is automatically 80% less because it's in a red light district, which means the schools get less because the property taxes are less.

00;22;51;27 - 00;23;15;09
Aneka
It's a whole systemic thing that people don't understand. After that debate, the girl of the class was brought to tears. Every day at class, she would bring me Starbucks. She would bring me gift cards, and I'm like, that's not what I want. But she just felt so bad. And she then understood.

00;23;15;09 - 00;23;23;26
James
And our system has kept that sort of learning away from the those that need to hear it.

00;23;23;29 - 00;23;40;07
Aneka
Exactly. And you have this mentality like, well, I don't want my child to know about slavery because we never owned any slaves. So why should my child feel bad? Because it's a part of history. Yeah, Ruby bridges is still alive. Ruby bridges is only in her 70s.

00;23;40;08 - 00;23;41;04
James
Well, and it wasn't.

00;23;41;04 - 00;23;44;02
Aneka
She integrated us long ago. Exactly.

00;23;44;05 - 00;23;48;20
James
You know, it was not. You know, we're not old enough to remember when she went to school.

00;23;48;21 - 00;23;51;07
Aneka
No, I wasn't alive when she first died.

00;23;51;08 - 00;24;00;13
James
I think it's wonderful when artists can bring their creativity to the level that you have.

00;24;00;14 - 00;24;00;29
Aneka
Well thank.

00;24;00;29 - 00;24;19;27
James
You. That allows others to recognize the importance of a culture that recognizes the importance of the history that is there and do it again. It's like I said earlier, it's almost like you give us this hug of learning.

00;24;19;27 - 00;24;39;00
Aneka
It really is. And it's like, I'm not trying to chastise. I'm trying to teach because the more we know, the better we are as humans. And the day that we stop learning should be the day we die. You're never too old to learn. Yes, that was the idea behind my black history events too. And they started off tiny.

00;24;39;03 - 00;25;07;25
Aneka
And then I had people like Lee and Doctor Johnson from Cantor Dermatology that just really believed in my mission. And so every year their checks got bigger and bigger, and they saw what I was doing. I was educating the community, and I went up from Palm Springs Disposal Services. I had these core non black businesses that just really enjoyed what I was doing and really enjoyed that.

00;25;07;25 - 00;25;16;22
Aneka
I was taking it as from a learning standpoint, because every year I did a black history event, you bought a ticket, you got these flash cards.

00;25;16;22 - 00;25;19;20
James
And I learned so much from those because I.

00;25;19;20 - 00;25;20;03
Aneka
Forgot what I.

00;25;20;03 - 00;25;29;22
James
Did at the end of the event. Right? Because if I wasn't a guest, I was blessed to be able to be a part of one of the vendors that you included because it was about community.

00;25;29;22 - 00;25;31;11
Aneka
It really is about community.

00;25;31;11 - 00;25;45;01
James
But then I got home and I'm looking at these flash cards and I'm learning about these names that I have heard or, you know, references from history. And suddenly I have a better understanding and picture of how this all fits and exactly.

00;25;45;01 - 00;25;59;05
Aneka
I mean, everybody from, Marsha P Johnson to James Baldwin to Dorothy Dandridge, I mean, all of these key black figures that people had no idea about. I taught them about that.

00;25;59;06 - 00;26;01;12
James
Well, and you celebrate it in your artwork.

00;26;01;15 - 00;26;02;29
Aneka
Exactly.

00;26;03;02 - 00;26;06;03
James
I mean, that's the creativity you're bringing to the table.

00;26;06;03 - 00;26;26;24
Aneka
Exactly. And so for me, it's not about where people say, oh, I want you to feel like, no, it's not. I don't want you to feel bad. I want you to learn. Because when you know you won't repeat it. So no, it's not about trying to make your your children feel bad. Because my people were slaves and people that looked like you happened to own us.

00;26;27;00 - 00;26;52;00
Aneka
It's about history. You can't just erase it. One of the things I taught people about was the measuring rod. A lot of people didn't know about that book, and that book was taught up until the late 70s in the South. And basically it was just a Confederate daughter. The leader of the Confederate Daughters wrote this manual, How Children were to be educated from pre-K all the way through college life.

00;26;52;00 - 00;27;02;16
Aneka
You got things like, there's that people like that look like me don't have the mental capacity. So therefore me being a slave was actually good for me because it taught me structure.

00;27;02;16 - 00;27;07;02
James
Well, it's about putting people into place. Know your position.

00;27;07;04 - 00;27;29;00
Aneka
There is a better way, and it's when you find out all these things that black people have contributed to society. If you had to go a day without a black invention, you wouldn't have light bulbs, you wouldn't have security cameras, you wouldn't have a car, you wouldn't have so many different types of food, you wouldn't be able to have an oven.

00;27;29;06 - 00;27;42;13
Aneka
You wouldn't have a mattress, you wouldn't have ice cream, you wouldn't have chips. There's just so many things that people do not know, and that information is suppressed on purpose.

00;27;42;13 - 00;28;03;24
James
So with your work, the beautiful prints that you make. In fact, I just saw the latest post of the new African wax cloths, ones that you're doing with your beautiful. How much do you hope through your clientele base, which is huge, that education's a piece of it.

00;28;04;01 - 00;28;35;20
Aneka
A lot because I always lead with the education. I always lead with the fact that I tend to buy fabrics from different regions throughout Africa, and I try to get women owned factories first if I can, and if I can't, then I go to other sources. But I love for people to know that these textiles, these batiks, these and Ankara, wherever region it may be, whatever it may be, that there's beauty in Africa that is not put out.

00;28;35;22 - 00;28;41;19
Aneka
It's like was the Met Gala. They just had the, the, the super fine tailoring.

00;28;41;22 - 00;28;43;01
James
Yes.

00;28;43;03 - 00;29;01;00
Aneka
Black Dandyism came along and you saw these bright colors and these bright prints that are anything but subtle and quiet. So when they were walking into these arenas where they were supposed to not be seen or heard, they're doing both.

00;29;01;02 - 00;29;05;07
James
But it sort of turned that event into an appropriation event.

00;29;05;07 - 00;29;11;28
Aneka
Didn't exactly. I did, because you had a lot of people that had no idea that were there were off trend.

00;29;12;00 - 00;29;28;04
James
Well, and it's interesting because for for an event like that, there's such an opportunity because you're celebrating art and you're celebrating the museum, and it's supposed to be a fundraiser. These sorts of things, but it turns into spectacle.

00;29;28;06 - 00;29;54;26
Aneka
And that's exactly what it was. It's like I was posting pictures of the people that I think just killed it. And there was, a picture of Simone Biles. Yes. Simone Biles absolutely bodied black Dandyism. And there was, another black person that came into the comments to say, well, she looked ridiculous. And I was like, well, you don't understand, like dandyism that.

00;29;54;29 - 00;30;13;05
Aneka
Well, how do you do? I don't understand it. Because if you did, you would realize that she was channeling Baby Esther. Do you know who Baby Esther is? They stole her image and likeness for Betty Boop. She was also channeling Josephine Baker. So for you to say that she looked ridiculous. That lets me know that you don't understand.

00;30;13;05 - 00;30;37;01
Aneka
Dandyism you don't understand the Harlem Renaissance. You don't understand the idea. And even if it was Anna's idea, she should have turned it over to Dapper Dan and let Dapper Dan execute that the way he wanted to, because Dapper Dan is again the personification of black Dandyism dapper Dan in the 80s was the one that dressed all the rappers like cool J.

00;30;37;04 - 00;31;07;24
Aneka
Salt and pepper, everybody. The only thing that closed him down is because he was borrowing people's trademark to make so to make, clothing. So were he Gucci, Louis Vuitton. And so when they wanted to reinvent themselves, what did they do? They went back to a, a Dapper Dan. Gucci was really guilty of it. They went back to a coat that he did not thought that we weren't going to recognize it and relaunched it like maybe five years ago.

00;31;07;26 - 00;31;19;25
Aneka
They relaunched the same exact coat, but they shut him down for making and instead of going to get him, they just said, oh, we'll just take it. Or they tried to take it, but then they ended up hiring him.

00;31;19;25 - 00;31;52;01
James
It's been interesting through all of the decades of fashion, how different designers have gotten their hands dirty with doing those sorts of tricks, appropriating some piece of culture or stealing the idea. But you know, you brought it up here just a little bit that they get away with it and it just goes back to people have been put into places and we have had a lack of education to understand.

00;31;52;01 - 00;31;52;10
Aneka
Clay.

00;31;52;18 - 00;32;11;27
James
Which is why I love getting to be in the realm that you are with what you're doing and what you're designing and what you've created, because I feel it has helped me become a better person in recognizing a culture that I haven't had enough exposure.

00;32;11;27 - 00;32;38;13
Aneka
To. Thank you. I mean, there's been a couple of times where I've done designs, and I don't want to send a copy me because I'm nobody. But it's like I put this code out and there was different jungle themes. And then for lo, maybe three years later, that code showed up. And I'm trying to think what designer it was, and I don't remember who pointed out to me, but they're like, Aneka, that's the same damn code.

00;32;38;15 - 00;33;00;06
Aneka
And then like how I was taking black images and reversing them, or I was taking black and white images and reversing them and putting them on. I do them on my bags and stuff. And then I think Beaumont had a collection where the same they were doing, and I'm like, well, no, I mean, it can't be. I mean, because I'm this nobody, so it's just a coincidence.

00;33;00;10 - 00;33;22;29
Aneka
But then when you look at it, it's not a coincidence, because I remember at one point I was on I'm not on Twitter anymore. It was Twitter that I found out Michael Klaus was following me. And so it was like I took a screenshot and I tweeted it out. I said, I bet not see none of my names in Michael Kors collection because we know.

00;33;23;02 - 00;33;25;24
Aneka
Here's proof he's following me.

00;33;25;26 - 00;33;58;16
James
So he just made a comment that you're a nobody. I want to correct that. You are somebody. You are somebody amazing. I think that you have had the red carpet walks with your clothing. It has been noticed. It is out in a world that needs to see and understand better this culture. And I appreciate back to that day that we sat there and had that heart to heart about appropriation and appreciation for you.

00;33;58;22 - 00;34;05;12
James
Recently, for actually quite a while now at this point, have been doing pop ups for Macy's.

00;34;05;15 - 00;34;26;14
Aneka
Yeah, it's been a year. It's called Meet and Shop. The designer I go to the Macy's and I pop up and you get to meet shop me. The ultimate goal is I would love to be in Macy's nationwide. So that's the ultimate goal behind this is that I'm working toward being picked up as a vendor. Macy's nationwide.

00;34;26;21 - 00;34;31;26
James
Well, and you've been having pretty good reception with being at Macy's, having children.

00;34;31;27 - 00;34;37;20
Aneka
I have and again, and it's what people that don't look like me just appreciate it.

00;34;37;23 - 00;34;45;02
James
I love how you people that don't look like I kind of I.

00;34;45;04 - 00;34;46;13
James
But that's just it, right?

00;34;46;17 - 00;35;08;03
Aneka
Yes. Because, what Macy's is doing right now is that they are closing a lot of the bigger stores. And they're coming up with these smaller formats, and they've got the designers in there. So you've got Gucci, Tom Ford, Michael Kors. So you've got all of these design brands, and those are the stores that I'm going to on the smaller scales.

00;35;08;05 - 00;35;20;15
Aneka
So it's less of a huge experience, more of a curated experience. So you're getting all these high end brands and that's where they're sticking me in those types of Macy's.

00;35;20;15 - 00;35;29;07
James
But that seems to be a better fit for what it is that you do because you're doing verges on couture, you know?

00;35;29;08 - 00;35;51;10
Aneka
Yeah. That's I over the last few months, I haven't so much done. I have two lines before I get started. I've got a Nicole Brown designs, which are my original designs, and they're fabricated out of the African waxed cloth. And I also introduced the fact that they're now reversible pieces. So I've got the reversible kimonos or reversible caftans shirts.

00;35;51;14 - 00;36;08;08
Aneka
So you're getting two for one. And then my Abdi is my more. They're ready to wear, which is what the wearable art bags are going into. What I've been finding the last couple of events, I've only been bringing the wearable art, and those have been really well received. Well.

00;36;08;08 - 00;36;23;15
James
And it's interesting too, because we have right now a moment in our economy where people don't have as much available cash to be picking up a designer piece, but your stuff is accessible.

00;36;23;17 - 00;36;47;08
Aneka
It really is, because the whole idea and I my motto is live every day of life like you're on a runway. And so with my Nicole Brown Designs line, I've got these pieces that we probably could be paid $1,800 for, but they're reversal. So they're not something you see every day. There's just these phenomenal pieces that you put on, and you walk into a room and you're automatically the center of attention.

00;36;47;08 - 00;36;50;02
Aneka
What I'm saying, Monos, it's flawless.

00;36;50;04 - 00;36;51;19
James
I've captured it, I love it.

00;36;51;22 - 00;37;10;02
Aneka
Yes, you look at you. You have the chance to. Yes. And I've been finding, too, that it's a lot easier in. I would say November ish is when I'll reintroduce the new pieces from City Brown Light, and I'll have both, and it'll be a merging of the two.

00;37;10;04 - 00;37;12;24
James
So what's next for Aneka Brown?

00;37;12;27 - 00;37;34;13
Aneka
I would love to. Like I said, by manifesting, I would love to be in Macy's nationwide. I would love to be in Nordstrom's, Macy's, nationwide. I would love to be in sacks. And I would love to expand upon my celebrity clientele. You know, I would love to dress Angela Bassett. I would love to dress mobiles. I would love to dress Ciara.

00;37;34;13 - 00;37;50;05
Aneka
I would love to. There are just so many people that I admire for their fashion sense. I am absolutely enamored right now with Venus Williams. We are witnessing a star being born with her fashion. I would love to dress Venus Williams well.

00;37;50;05 - 00;37;51;19
James
Let's see if we can't make that happen.

00;37;51;19 - 00;37;56;26
Aneka
Let's make it happen. So let's just keep truckin. I'm just going to keep on truckin.

00;37;56;28 - 00;38;15;13
James
A naked thank you so much for spending time with me today. Loved being able to come into your shop and sit here with you and just be a part of it. Aneka has a shop that's up running right now and it is in Palm Springs. She also is available online. I will make sure that all of this information is in the show.

00;38;15;13 - 00;38;17;23
James
Notes that anybody can get to you.

00;38;18;00 - 00;38;31;17
Aneka
Thank you. And I have Macy's the last Saturday and Sunday of July the LA Macy's. The color is crazy. So excellent. There are two of here in the vicinity.

00;38;31;20 - 00;38;35;13
James
We will make sure all of that's in there. Anika thank you again.

00;38;35;13 - 00;38;38;14
Aneka
Thank you for having me. It's been a wonderful experience.

00;38;38;17 - 00;39;18;08
James
Well that's a wrap on my latte and this enlightening conversation with the incredible Anika Brown. I hope you found today's discussion as inspiring and thought provoking as I do remember, exploring the line between cultural appropriation and appreciation is an ongoing journey, one that's richer when we listen, learn, and celebrate each other's stories. Don't forget to check the show notes for all the opportunities to catch Anika out in the community and at Macy's, where you can experience her work and support her mission to bring authentic cultural expression to the world of design.

00;39;18;11 - 00;39;31;14
James
Thanks for tuning in. Remember, keep creating, keep questioning and I hope to see you next time. I'm James William Moore and this has been Lattes & Art presented by J-Squared Atelier.